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What’s your relationship to Pride as a phenomenon, historically and currently? It can be very helpful in undermining the use of homosexuality as a fig leaf to pinkwash reactionary political projects - and racist and colonialist political projects as well. Lemmey: The study of history in this way removes the figure of the queer person as inherently radical, and probably inherently nice, in some way - which is not just ahistorical but an observable falsehood to anyone who hangs out in a gay bar.
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Miller: Only by understanding how history works do we understand how to work within the world we’ve been given to change the world we’ve been given. But a big theme in the book is looking at how queer people have assimilated themselves into the dominant culture. I think there is a tendency to equate queerness with radical ideas.
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I think the fact that the person who led that was not only openly gay- Pim Fortuyn in the Netherlands, in 2002 - he was so gay that during the election campaign he gave a TV interview in which he talked about how good tastes.ĭiscussing touring, Twitter and his bittersweet new book, “Happy-Go-Lucky,” legendary comic writer David Sedaris defends his right to cause offense.
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Miller: There’s so much public conversation about the rise of the new right across the West. What does that mean? King James - was he having sex with these men? He was clearly writing in this romantic form about them, but does that mean he was having sex with them? It’s an open discussion we have.ĭo you have any favorite stories in the book? There’s the discussion of whether you can label someone who was born before the 1860s as a homosexual in the first place. Lemmey: We’re constantly saying: This is our conclusion, but we’re showing our workings you might come to a different conclusion. How do you talk around that in a show called “Bad Gays”? And we sometimes know something about their sex lives, but we don’t have much evidence. So you’re having conversations about people who wouldn’t have identified as gay or lesbian or queer. And if they aren’t natural then we can rethink what forms we might want. That’s the main conversation of the book - to look for the historical basis, because within that historical basis there’s a challenge to the idea of these forms being natural. Lemmey: It’s very easy to assume that, after a few generations, they are natural. Why did framing the podcast around, as you sometimes say, “queer villains” feel like the right project for you?
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Edgar Hoover taken together they explain, as Miller puts it, “how the white gay man happened as an identity figure, and why that was a mistake, and what we should do instead.” “Bad Gays: A Homosexual History” offers biographical sketches of 14 men, ranging from the Roman emperor Hadrian to J. In late May of this year, the podcast crossed the million-download mark, and Miller and Lemmey published a companion book of the same title. Who was going to be listening, anyway?Īs it turned out, many, many people. Neither had any audio experience, but that didn’t matter, they figured. So when the pair were introduced by a mutual friend, they decided to go rogue and DIY a podcast called “ Bad Gays,” aimed at discussing and dissecting the lives of “evil and complicated queer people in history” as a means of exploring modern queer identity. “We kept being told, ‘There is no audience for this people aren’t ready,’” Miller explained during a recent Zoom call. But they found that the kinds of topics they wanted to talk about, the “beyond 101,” as Miller puts it now, often sounded intimidating to editors and other gatekeepers. Both men have an abiding interest in queer history - Miller as an academic and Lemmey as a writer of essays and novels. If you buy books linked on our site, The Times may earn a commission from, whose fees support independent bookstores.Įven before Huw Lemmey and Ben Miller met, they were on the same page.